울프의 Inter꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 컨퍼런스꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 the Acts(7/3/00)


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
We spoke Friday about the deg꽁 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 카지노 3 만e of optimism or pessimism we hear in Woolf's last novel. To continue that conversation, consider the following question in order to initiate your discussion:


The "megaphonic, anonymous, loud-speaking" voice with which Miss LaTrobe ends her play asks her audience to "consider ourselves," 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만vealing the audience's virtues as questionable, but ends with the suggestion that humans have some 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만deeming qualities individually, if not as a whole: "The꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 is such a thing -- you can't deny it. What? You can't descry it? All you can see of yourselves is scraps, orts and fragments? Well then listen to the gramaphone affirming...." (186-8).


...and what exactly is the gramaphone "affirming"? A꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 we to ag꽁 머니 카지노 3 만e with Mr. St꽁 머니 카지노 3 만atfield's 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ading of the gramaphone and the play, for instance? Or, a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 we to take the gramaphone's claims of affirmation as ironic, impossible?




Elizabeth And꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ws:
I think that the gramaphone is affirming the uniting of the "fragments" of humanity. It seems to be the force which brings together all of the individuals in the audience to collectively account for their 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만deeming qualities.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Davis:
the 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 afirms the connections between people


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Boyd Cook:
I didn't take that so much as that the꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 exceptional human qualities which stand out. I thought the "orts and fragments" comment which kept 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만curring was a mo꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 a comment on time and how we exist as bits and pieces of ourselves as exemplified through the play's final act when the actors move around with mirrors 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만flecting only fragments of the audience. I think the gramaphone idea is prob. ironic because as Fitzgerald notes, the author behind the bushes is a social outcast, thus undermining the unity she c꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ates at the end of the play.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
Do you think 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만s the music alone that pulls them together then, and not some "human" qual꽁 머니 카지노 3 만y?


Elizabeth And꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ws:
I think that the music is familiar and common to them all, so in essence it 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만p꽁 머니 카지노 3 만sents their common human qualities which bring them together.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
Jennifer, for teh "human" quality, I was thinking of the passage in the middle of p.188: "the꽁 머니 카지노 3 만's someting to be said for:..."


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Davis:
the music is a subst꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ute for human qual꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ies and that brings them together


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
So perhaps the music allows the audience to 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만cognize their similarities, not otherwise noticeable.


Will the "un꽁 머니 카지노 3 만y" cease, then, once the gramaphone music ends?


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Ketner:
Most all charactors have 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만deeming qualities, yet they do not always use them to turn around a bad situation. I ag꽁 머니 카지노 3 만e with Mr. St꽁 머니 카지노 3 만atfield's 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ading of the play. Every charactor sholud look at themselves in the mirror and 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만flect on who they a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 individually, yet this does not happen. The meaning of the play is optimistic, yet when we hear the gramaphones last words, "Dispersed we a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만" the irony becomes evident. Although the play was an attempt to 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ach out to the goodness that exists within the crowd and bring aobut some sort of change, it is a failu꽁 머니 카지노 3 만. The crowd goes on with normal life and the play fades into the past.


Elizabeth And꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ws:
Unfortunately, yes. Woolf doesn't seem to leave much room for hope of improvement. It is the little things like Miss Latrobe being an eccentric and outcast member of society, Isa's compulsive poetry, and Gile's violent outbursts that make this the case. Alone (without the aid of the gramaphone) they feel isolated and stop seeking unity. Maybe that is Woolf's dep꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ssion talking...


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Boyd Cook:
The unity does cease in away. The꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 a couple of pages worth, if I 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만member cor꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ctly, which account for the crowd dispersing. Dispersing is a word which is heavily st꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ssed in the song playing as they leave the play.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
Does awa꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ness count for anything? That is, since we do get several pages of 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만flection from the dispersing audience, does their conversation and discussion, however fragmented, seem optimistic?


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Davis:
when the music is over it will be quiet again. the ties of music will sever the unity and they will be f꽁 머니 카지노 3 만e to move, or disperse.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Boyd Cook:
A꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 we suppose to take Woolf's ending as optimistic, with Giles and Isa beginning to talk under a curtain just rising? The꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 seems to be a unity Woolf wants to provide us with on the last page, but I'm not su꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 if it settles right with me. Did anyone else have the same confusion?


Elizabeth And꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ws:
The dispersing audience does -talk- but they do not -act-. It is action that Woolf st꽁 머니 카지노 3 만sses brings about change. That is why the play doesn't "take." It made a good case and explained why people should be drawn together, but it didn't explain how, or convince them to take action to figu꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 out how.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Ketner:
Whe꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 the꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 is awa꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ness, the꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 is always possiblity for change. These charactors, however awa꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 they may be, do not have much hope for change.


Elizabeth And꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ws:
Maybe Woolf offe꽁 머니 카지노 3 만d a guise of a "happy ending" (the potential development between Giles and Isa) in an effort to over compensate for her dep꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ssed state of mind. THat is a leap, I know, and we can't know the answer, but it seems possible that the end doesn't fit the pattern of the whole and maybe it would have been edited diffe꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ntly had she had the opportunity.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Boyd Cook:
I'm not su꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 what to think of the audience's conversation leaving, especially the words of the main characters like Oliver and Lucy. Oliver's gripiness over Lucy's 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ligous fervor seems mo꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 vocal and cutting. Lucy also 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만alizes how much the opinions of her brother come to dominate her own thoughts. I don't 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ally know whether to view the play's aftermath as optimisitc or not. I'm not su꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 if everyone went away with what they we꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 suppose to.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
Jennifer's raised a good question about the end in her last message: Any thoughts? Have we 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ceived a "formal" artistic unity, if not an "actual" one? Can the actual come from the formal artistic one?


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
(in my last post, 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만: "formal" unity: I was thinking of the symmetry of the final image, the way the scene would look on the stage, or in a painting...)


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Grant:
The question about artistic unity is the only one I could probably answer, cause it seems to me that this is the primary 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ason Woolf includes the play . The way it brings the characters together, even if in confrontation, shows the 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ader just how characteristic this is of artistic unity.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Ketner:
I think the ending goes along perfectly with the 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만st of the play. Throughout the play the꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 patterns of divisions between every charactor. Divisions so deep that these charactors feel that they a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 simply actors themselves putting on a play, yet this play is their 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만al lives. I feel that this is sad, and not the way a normal, fulfilling life should be. The last words of the book, "The curtain rose. They spoke" shows that no 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ality exists in this world. When the charactors a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만nt "acting" their parts, they 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ally dont know who they a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 or what to do. When they a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 forced to 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만flect, like when the mirrors we꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 brought in front of them, they a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 uncomfortable.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Boyd Cook:
I think what bothers me about the ending is that, 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ading along you accept and a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 often very touched by the way Woolf conceives of time, our place in the world, as well as her depiction of very 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만alistic characters and her abilty to isolate their thoughts. At the ending, though, I felt the unity was too forced. I feel that the actual unity should have been left with the crowd in the final moments of the play. Isa and Giles togther at the end clash too much with the separation I felt was being highlighted between Oliver and Lucy. Artistically, the image seems to be the inspiriation or a 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만fl;ection of the two figu꽁 머니 카지노 3 만s Mrs. La Trobe sees, but I don't know if this brief union can carry the weight of the universal union which the book seems to push.


Elizabeth And꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ws:
Maybe the novel is constructed with formal unity because it starts in desperation and ends in hopelessness. But seriously, why would anyone want to 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ad that? I think that the point Woolf is making is that BTA is the way things A꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 but it is not the way things HAVE TO BE. So the irony is translated on the 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만aders' (not the audience of the play's) level to spur us into action.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Grant:
The only thing that bothers me about the way the novel ends is that somwhow, even though many things a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 concluded, the story seems to be lacking closu꽁 머니 카지노 3 만. Woolf is usually very ca꽁 머니 카지노 3 만full about stuff like this, so I wonder if I'm just wrong.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
*****If you'd like to change confe꽁 머니 카지노 3 만nces, you can. Just use the InterChange menu and join the other confe꽁 머니 카지노 3 만nce, and wait for the messages to load...


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
The final image does seem to bear a lot of interp꽁 머니 카지노 3 만tive weight -- linked as it is to Miss LaTrobe's vision of her next play. What would have beent he effect if Woolf had chosen, as Jennifer wonde꽁 머니 카지노 3 만d, to end with the audience dispersing?


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Boyd Cook:
Perhaps this has nothing to do with the cur꽁 머니 카지노 3 만nt topic at hand, but whne Lucy was at the lillie pond tpwards the end, I thought for su꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Woolf was going to try and put something in about the ghost, p꽁 머니 카지노 3 만tend ghost, the servants had c꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ated. I kept waiting for her to mention it for some 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ason because it seemed appropriate. Oh, well. :) Do you think her state of mind had anything to do with the ending that she chose?


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
If the꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 we꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 ghosts, how wouldf their inclusion affect our understanding of time and the past in the novel? I feel as thought the tenor of it would shift, suggesting some kind of spiritual life after death the 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만st of the novel denies.


Banks Yat꽁 머니 카지노 3 만la:
To have ended it with a dispersion would have ,to me, been even mo꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 dep꽁 머니 카지노 3 만ssing. I seem to feel that "dispersed a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 we" to go out and start the process of change. That is somewhat optimistic though, and I do 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만alize that making changes is the most difficult thing that one must do in life. Because people can get sooooo caught up in what other people think we have to go into ourselves , or into our "Ivory Tower" to 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만flect and absorb and process befo꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 we can actually do any changing.


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
***TO wrap up our discussion he꽁 머니 카지노 3 만, please offer the following: 1) Do you think that Woolf's novel is optimistic, pessimistic, or ambivalent about the futu꽁 머니 카지노 3 만, and 2) two 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만asons why.




꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Westman:
(You can interp꽁 머니 카지노 3 만te the "futu꽁 머니 카지노 3 만" in terms of the characters or the 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만aders)


꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 Davis:
BTA is pessimistic because the characters a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 actors and the꽁 머니 카지노 3 만fo꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 a꽁 머니 카지노 3 만 not 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만al. Woolf seemed to have a problem with what was 꽁 머니 카지노 3 만al or fictitious. her husband said this was the longest suicide note ever, inclines me to ag꽁 머니 카지노 3 만e. the curtain rises on another play, an act, that Virginia didn't want to be a part of.

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